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I'm fuming over Merseyrail threat to ban e-cigs

Barry Turnbull has an attack of the vapours

Written by . Published on August 20th 2013.


I'm fuming over Merseyrail threat to ban e-cigs
 

IN hindsight, e-cigarettes may well go down as one of the greatest devices to slash addiction, deaths and the massive toll on NHS resources. 

Real tobacco cigarettes cause misery and death, decimate your bank balance, and smash a hole in the public purse. 

No doubt the BMA are happy to recommend any number of nicotine patches or gels that have been successfully lobbied by pharmaceutical companies

Most sensible observers would think a harmless alternative that is taking thousands of traditional smokers off the evil weed would be a good thing. Not the Ayatollahs who run organisations like Merseyrail though. They are threatening a ban. 

The train operator pompously declares that it “closely monitors” customers' views on tobacco and e-cigraettes. Really? Tobacco was banned in public places in 2007 so what sort of monitoring does that entail? 



As for fake fags, I don’t believe for a minute they have had a deluge of complaints. In fact, I doubt they’ve had one. What some senior managers have seen is a few train operators (namely C2C, Greater Anglia and First Capital Connect) bringing in this senseless ban and are pondering following suit. 

The arguments are pretty lame. One train company says e-cigarettes make passengers uneasy. Do they? Says who? This all smacks of curtailing civil liberties for no other reason than some nameless person somewhere is worried in case another is following some faintly pleasurable pursuit.

Even ASH, the anti-smoking organisation says a public ban would be unhelpful for those trying to give up.

Elektroniksigara
I use Merseyrail fairly frequently and I have yet to be lost in a fog of odourless vapour from an army of fake fag users.

When I successfully used an electronic cigarette to break my 30-year tobacco habit I never used it on the train – it was for those tempting occasions in the pub, which were far more relevant. However for those who do occasionally want to inhale vapour or “vape up”, where is the harm?

The vapour in an e-fag is typically propylene glycol with just a hint of nicotine flavour. Macie Goniewicz of the Roswell Cancer Institute in Buffalo, US, says more research is needed into the effects of vaping but one thing is certain – you cannot inhale vapours as you can from passive smoking. Therefore a ban in public places is entirely irrelevant.

So just who is Merseyrail intending to protect? Certainly not the seasoned smoker who may have spent years trying every method under the sun to quit, spent a small fortune and in all likelihood is facing a miserable early demise in the lung cancer capital of the UK.

Where has this backlash come from? After all, more people are quitting and even tobacco companies are now investing their profits into these healthier alternatives.

Step forward the good old British Medical Association, the arbiter of what’s right and wrong for you and I to be doing.

The BMA’s take, with no evidence whatsoever, is that a blanket public ban is necessary to prevent exposure to inhaling the odd nicotine vapour from some of the devices. Not lethal carbon monoxide or carcinogen-laden smoke. Does anyone seriously believe that if there was any hint that these products were dangerous they would still be on the shelves?

Further, they are advising their members, ie doctors, that e-cigs should not be recommended as an alternative lower risk to smoking!

No doubt they are happy to recommend any number of nicotine patches or gels that have been successfully lobbied by pharmaceutical companies. Yet the studies on their effectiveness on those are iffy and many side effects have been reported.

The BMA wants regulation but that’s not possible. Ecigs are not a medical product and the Dutch government was recently fined in the Hague courts for attempting to do exactly this.

They are already regulated under general product and chemical rules.

Merseyrail comment: “Merseyrail closely monitors the views of our customers regarding the smoking of tobacco and e-cigarettes on trains and stations and we are reviewing this policy.

“ Should we conclude that there is a place for outlawing it, we will take the necessary steps to do so”. Note the Orwellian “should we conclude”. And how are they going to conclude that? Listen to second hand reports from other operators and the BMA?

Meanwhile there are 1.3m e-cigarette users and more are stopping smoking each day. It seems some train companies want to drive them back into cars where it is more likely they will end up puffing on the real thing.

Follow Barry Turnbull on twitter @barryturnbull2

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90 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

HenryAugust 20th 2013.

Must admit I havent seen too many people 'lighting up' ecigs on trains. Again it seems to be a corporate organisation deciding what is best for everyone else. If these things are helping people kick an addiction why would a train operator intervene? Just another example of the ban everything brigade.

Garry SmithAugust 20th 2013.

My sister tried for years to give up and is almost there after using these things as a last resort. I hate fags but she uses them in our house and they give off visible 'smoke' but otherwise undetectable. Seems like a lot of 'hot air' from Merseyrail!

Karen TinsleyAugust 21st 2013.

Surely smokers have got used to not having their 'fix' on train journeys by now- after all, the smoking ban has been in operation for six years now? The whole point as I see it is that we are trying to de-normalise smoking to children and young people, to help prevent them from taking up smoking. These e-gigs are going a long way to undo the progress made so far in this. Try thinking outside the (cigarette) box, and have some regard for others.

6 Responses: Reply To This...
Derek DrakeAugust 21st 2013.

Well said friend

AnonymousAugust 21st 2013.

e-cigs are no worse an exmple than seeing grownups smoking on the street. cant see why one adult should curtail their reasonable and legal behaviour to set an example to anothers children.

Nick O'TeenAugust 22nd 2013.

D'uhhhh! People have smoke in the street because they are no longer allowed to smoke inside public buildings such as pubs.

oh Mr. PorterAugust 22nd 2013.

Don't forget that the prohibition of smoking on public transport is far older than the smoking ban in pubs.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

"Surely smokers have got used to not having their 'fix' on train journeys by now" Sure, I'm sure smokers are quite habitual about holding of and lighting up right after getting off the train. In fact, that's the problem. Now if you want former smokers to be exposed to second hand smoke, be put at risk of relapse, and stink to boot, that's between you and you. " The whole point as I see it is that we are trying to de-normalise smoking to children" There are two problems with this statement. Firstly the claim is it's a health issue, so if you concede it's behavior modeling and not health there is no legal justification for the ban. Secondly, you ban smoking inside people take it outside and it becomes more visible than it was before, thus making it NORMAL.

Owen M. D.August 23rd 2013.

The third thing wrong with it is "de-normalise". It's not a real word

Derek DrakeAugust 21st 2013.

You cannot kick an addiction to nicotine using an E-Cigs! Who said that they were safe? Why are they banned in other countries like Australia Canada New Zealand Mexico Israel and parts of the USA? House fires are being caused by the ones that have a usb charger. What about the issue of them causing pleurisy and lipoid pneumonia? Is this why they have a skull and cross bone on the packet. Has the danger of second hand smoke i.e. poisonous chemicals been removed from the E-Cig No. Think before you pay to harm your health !

7 Responses: Reply To This...
RojeansAugust 23rd 2013.

Derek they have been proven to be 99% safer that cigarettes but there are those who it suits for you not to know this. Read this.. publichealth.drexel.edu/…/ms08.pdf…

TwigletAugust 23rd 2013.

Derek, to answer a few of your questions, there is a warning label on liquid nicotine containers because it is poisonous if you drink enough of it. E-cigs don't produce smoke at all, let alone 2nd hand smoke and 2nd hand vapour has been found to be harmless. The type of batteries used in ecigs can, in some circumstances catch fire. The same type of batteries are also used in phones and laptops, should we ban those too? There is no evidence at all that ecigs cause pleuracy or lipoid pneumonia. I have no idea why some countries have banned them. Wilful ignorance and pressure from the pharmaceutical industry would be my guess.

Paul WardAugust 23rd 2013.

Re lipoid pneumonia - one doctor made a comment that the disease in one patient might be linked to the brand of e-cig that the patient had been using. The comment was based on the possibility that oil in the mix might have caused a problem. Not exactly a smoking gun, to coin a phrase.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

You're being disingenuous. E-cigarettes are not banned in Canada, however, nicotine based fluids are. Canadians are perfectly welcome to buy SNUS packets, boil them, and use that. Anyways the claim is Health Canada would need to review them first, but that was 5 years ago. Regardless, the "ban" wasn't based on evidence but based on the fact NRPs are sold, so smokers should use those instead.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

Housefires are caused by failed li-ion batteries, the same issue tablets, mobile phones, smart phones, tablets, tooth brushes, fire detectors and many other devices have had. The US doesn't have mandatory testing of these batteries, but we totally should. The core issue I suspect is makers creating a special charger with a universal plug. It's like trying to charge your tablet or iphone on your PC, you often can't, not enough amps. And this is what we observe, an objective risk when using 3rd party chargers.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

The danger of second hand smoke has been removed from e-cigarettes since there is no smoke. Now second hand smoke isn't all that risky in the first place. There is a greater health impact per gram from wood, and we burn that by the kilo. We can say with objective certainty e-cigarettes pose a lower risk than burning a paraffin candle.

Hilda BakerAugust 24th 2013.

Derek...have you ever tried Ecigs and where are you getting your information from?

Barry TurnbullAugust 21st 2013.

You cannot kick an addiction using ecigs? So I dreamed it or made it up? Who says its safe? Prof Igor Burstyn of the Drexel University School of Public Health in a report published on August 8. Go read. They pose no health threat ESPECIALLY to bystanders. Cigarettes cause 5m deaths worldwide and 20 times that in diseases (Centre for Disease Control). Health bills run into billions. Cigarettes cause an est 1m fires worldwide and are the biggest cause of residential fires and deaths. In fact as we have seen locally they can wipe out whole families at a stroke. A handful of ecigs have reported to have ignited on charging.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
Karen TinsleyAugust 21st 2013.

So a 'handful' of fires is ok then? An acceptable risk? I am well aware of the damage, illness and death caused by tobacco, and do not deny the risks. My problem is that children and young people are seeing the e-cig being used, seeing that it's a 'cool' gadget and are taking up it's use, which is a gateway to smoking tobacco. I'm not against the e-cig or it's perceived 'benefits' over smoking, but please keep it in it's place- out of sight of children, and confined to smokers who are looking for an alternative way of maintaining their addiction to nicotine.

TwigletAugust 23rd 2013.

Karen, did you know that the fires are caused by batteries and that ecigs use exactly the same type of batteries as are in laptops? Ecig fires are rare, as are laptop fires, but should we ban laptops too, just in case? Re the children, if you would like to inform yourself of the fact rather than blindly following the opinion of the hand wringing nannies go to the website of ASH and find their fact sheet numbered 33 and you will see that it simply isn't true that children are being influenced into taking up e-cigs. Here is a link www.ash.org.uk/…/ASH_891.pdf…

LittleollieAugust 23rd 2013.

No Karen a handful of fires is not ok... but lobbying against an aid to help prevent millions of deaths per is!!!! Come on .... get real. I would rather my child 'vaped' on a nicotine free e-cig (after having a long discussion with them first) than 'smoking' on a disease causing cigarette on the streets with their mates. I'm sorry but you have got to wake up and becides, trust me when I say this. Once you have 'vaped' on a fruity or spicy or whatever flavoured e-cig takes you fancy, you will never, ever turn to tobacco products to get your 'fix'... as you call it. 27 years I was a smoker and for the past 6 months I have been a vaper, so my health is on the up. So for me E-cigs have done what I wanted them to do and that is to give up 'smoking'. I am now no more an addict than a coffee drinker.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

"So a 'handful' of fires is ok then?". Why yes Karen, a handful of fires is actually okay considering the alternative is a fist full of fires. We're talking 800 in London Jan 2005-Nov 2011 from real cigarettes, and 90 deaths. And you'll pulling your data from the US, which doesn't have mandatory testing like your CE in Europe. We generally accept saving lives is a good thing, and the risk is no greater than charging your mobile, in fact likely less than a smart phone or a tablet.

RamseyAugust 21st 2013.

'Note the Orwellian “should we conclude”.' In what way is it Orwellian?

AnonymousAugust 21st 2013.

Barry , well done for stopping smoking and I assume you are not using an e cig anymore? - most people who have switched from tobacco are maintaining their addiction to nicotine by using the e-cig and are still addicted to nicotine. The problem is,we have very young impressional people that has never see someone sucking on a 'dummy cig' on a train or any other indoor public place since the public ban in 2007. Most e-cig companies are targeting young people to take them up by offering sweet flavours like Tutti Frutti and Cherry and with no legal restriction on age a lot of schoolage kids in our school have taken this up - some has never smoked -surely this cant be right?

4 Responses: Reply To This...
Karen TinsleyAugust 22nd 2013.

Exactly my point- children are seeing these as a new, desirable 'gadget' to keep up with their friends. Kids who would otherwise not have smoked a real cig, are being given the impression that the e-cig is harmless, non-addictive and trendy, are being hooked into an addiction that is VERY difficult to kick at a later date. There seems to be no guidelines or legislation restricting the minimum age to sell them to, so yes, kids are able to buy them. No one, least of all me, is saying that they are dangerous to either the user, or people nearby, but surely it makes sense to at least TRY to put kids and young people off from becoming addicted?

TwigletAugust 23rd 2013.

Again, this simply scaremongering rubbish. Ecig users and vendors are united in wanting a ban on selling to under 18's and at the moment they restrict sales voluntarily. Read the ASH study which shows that ecigs are not a gateway product for children : www.ash.org.uk/…/ASH_891.pdf… . Is there a particular age at which adults are no longer permitted to like sweet flavours? One of the reasons that ecigs are a good replacement for tobacco cigarettes is because they don't taste like bonfire.

LittleollieAugust 23rd 2013.

Nicotine IS addictive... FACT Nicotine has only been ingested (until recently) by way of tobacco products, which brings with them their own health risks. By ingesting via an E-cig it brings with it a 99% healthier option compared to tobacco products. I know which option I would prefer people to choose if they feel the need to obtain a nicotine fix. In an ideal world nicotine would not exist neither would caffeine not to mention the drugs that actually DO harm people. But we don't do we, we choose the path so let us walk the walk in the safest way possible.

David MogerAugust 25th 2013.

Just because an ex smoker continues to use e cigs as they like the nicotine or after years of smoking their bodies have got used to nicotine does not make them an addict. The consumption on nicotine is just the same as drinking coffee, listening to music or having sex. People who do these things are not accused of being addicts they just like doing it. As nicotine is no mor dangerous than coffee or sex why single us out.

AnonymousAugust 21st 2013.

Smoking related diseases may be expensive for the NHS to treat but untimately they are less expensive than paying for long term elderly care which makes smoking a moneysaver for the NHS. Not only that but banning e-cigs on trains should have no impact on those giving up, its not like they would be able to smoke on the train so they can just light up their e-cig on the platform as any other smoker would. I couldnt agree more on civil liberties though and untill there is evidence of harm from passive smoking of e-cigs they should not be banned.

6 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousAugust 21st 2013.

I cant believe you are serious!! Do you mean long term elderly care for 'healthy people' or those suffering from the chronic debilitating illnesses caused by years of smoking ??

Karen TinsleyAugust 22nd 2013.

I actually had to re-read the first few lines of your post- are you really saying that something that is killing people off (usually in a horrible manner) is a good thing?!?

Owen M. D.August 22nd 2013.

No, those suffering from the chronic debilitating illnesses caused by years of living. Well, if you are a Conservative who demands that we "balance the books" or a pensions company it is a good thing for people to die younger to save on all that expensive health care, benefits, pensions etc. that the long-living will insist upon being entitled to. In view of the Tory perception of 'fairness' that has been used to justify benefits cuts and the Bedroom Tax soon they will have to face up to the unfairness that longer-lived people benefit more from pensions and cost the health service more. Perhaps they start killing people who Iain Duncan Smith considers have lived too long or who are insufficiently productive to justify the cost of keeping them alive.

AnonymousAugust 23rd 2013.

I wasnt saying its a good thing just that the authors arguments around saving the NHS money are flawed.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

It's rather an objective fact, smokers live not quite as long as non-smokers, and average of 8 years. This is a net win for NHS since geriatric care is most costly. The bulk of deaths are from unrepeatable conditions, like lung cancer or heart disease. This shouldn't be accepted as a good thing, but it's an objective fact tobacco, cigarettes in particular, make big bucks.

Owen M. D.August 23rd 2013.

Anyone who does not smoke by the age of 40 will be forced to by Iain Duncan Smith or they will be expelled from the NHS. There will be generous tax rebates for those over 50 to make tobacco very cheap to buy.

Barry TurnbullAugust 21st 2013.

In response: 1)Are a small number of fires acceptable? Dunno, want to ban chip pans? 2) How can you compare occasional drag on a leccy fag with the untold images and smoking seen everyday by every child in every street? 3) How are Merseyrail Orwellian? Because they are an unelected body 'concluding' what is best for the rest of us. I thought they were a train operator.

2 Responses: Reply To This...
RamseyAugust 21st 2013.

"How are Merseyrail Orwellian? Because they are an unelected body 'concluding' what is best for the rest of us." Well, as they did about people putting their feet on the seats. Or indeed about drinking alcohol on the trains (see the ban this weekend).

PassengerMay 13th 2014.

I do wish they'd ban food and drink on the trains; they are what causes most of the unpleasantness when they are spilt or discarded on the floor, seats. upholstery etc.

AnonymousAugust 21st 2013.

I see no-one has responded to my comment about these companies targeting young people ?

3 Responses: Reply To This...
RojeansAugust 23rd 2013.

E-cigs are only sold to adults by responsible vendors except by those who would also do the same with fags and booze to make a fast buck.....so ban said fags and booze on the same grounds?

RojeansAugust 23rd 2013.

Thanks to the author for a well balanced and argued piece of journalism.

AnonymousAugust 23rd 2013.

Only its not balanced at all and the balance has come from the rants - it was an unbalanced opinion piece.

BurnsyAugust 21st 2013.

You are not giving up your addiction to nicotine, you are substituting a method of getting it into your blood stream. Much the same as patches, gum etc. I smoked all my life and was on a pack of Benson's a day Then I stopped. It was hard, but if I can........!

3 Responses: Reply To This...
Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

Nicotine is not the issue, and it's an objective fact that 50% of smokers die smoking, roughly 50% die of smoking. This is the quit or die philosophy, if you can't quit, you should die. It's also an appeal to the nirvana fallacy. There is no right way to quit smoking, and you concede you SMOKED most of your life. If you used nicotine most of your life, you wouldn't be at risk for lung cancer, or heart disease. So the smoker who switches to nicotine, then decides one day to quit nicotine is far batter off health wise than you who refused to accept a half ass solution.

BurnsyAugust 23rd 2013.

There were no half-arsed solutionswhen I quit. Nicotine is the addiction and the only way to pander to it was cigarettes or cigars.people become addicted to nicotine not the noxious gases which come with the burning of tobacco. If you can't quit you will probably die younger than a non-smoker.Fact. Any method of stopping smoking is good if it works for you. Of course, the best way is not to start!

AnonymousAugust 24th 2013.

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean everybody else can. Your holier than thou attitude is pathetic, get off your high horse. And how can you use the word 'probably', and then call your statement 'fact'? Your lack of intelligence negates your opinion.

HenryAugust 21st 2013.

Ramsey, Merseyrail responded to real public annoyance over feet on seats and drunks. So where is the public outrage on ecigs?

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousAugust 23rd 2013.

I think most train drunks are probably 3 sheets to the wind before they get on the merseyrail.

HenryAugust 21st 2013.

John Burns, Neither the government nor the chief medical director has remotely suggested a ban so why on earth would a single train company take it upon itself to do so?

1 Response: Reply To This...
BurnsyAugust 23rd 2013.

I personally do not think e-cigs should be banned on trains or any other public place.

HenryAugust 21st 2013.

In fact they do not have even appeared to have consulted their own governing body Merseytravel. Merseyrail, are you going to speak?

Nick O'TeenAugust 22nd 2013.

"Real tobacco cigarettes cause misery and death, decimate your bank balance, and smash a hole in the public purse." Hardly, the amount of tax and duty paid by smokers is still approximately double the alleged cost of treating the vast range of disorders that self-appointed little Hitlers claim to be "smoking related". Take away tobacco and what will they blame these diseases on then?

2 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousAugust 23rd 2013.

Your about 30 years behind the medical profession there Nick.

David MogerAugust 25th 2013.

I will go further. The antis are very good at a true statement that hides the truth. When they say people died of "smoking related diseases" they count all the people who die of those diseases weather the death had anything to do with smoking or not. Clever.

The fat controllerAugust 22nd 2013.

When Merseyrail bans the Orange Lodge pissheads who travel to Southport and back on July 12, a real public nuisance, then I will believe they do care about truly objectionable behaviour on their trains. Until then, this is just lip service where some middle manager has thought they'd better be seen to be doing something about e-cigs, in case their boss asks them about it.

oh Mr. PorterAugust 22nd 2013.

Trains are filled with antisocial pissheads most nights of every week. Are you going to discriminate against one particular type of pisshead, and if so how will you make it practical?

AnonymousAugust 23rd 2013.

Really hope they don't ban E-cigs, I've never heard a negative comment and they helped me give up. I'm on the nicotine free ones so I'm not addicted, but I still enjoy the habit. What is a real annoyance is being hounded by alcoholics asking for money, threatening me, I have even viewed some guy get his genitals out to someone who pretty upset by it. The thing is, there's normally one guard on a train, and way too many on the stations. When the guards get to the trouble, they help, but half the time the damage is done and the trouble makers have got off, and got away with they're actions.

TwigletAugust 23rd 2013.

No need sweety, I don't work for anyone, I run my own company working in property management, not that it's any business of yours.

8 Responses: Reply To This...
John BradleyAugust 23rd 2013.

With a side line in selling E-Cigs perchance, Darling.

TwigletAugust 23rd 2013.

Nope.

John BradleyAugust 23rd 2013.

Related to someone who does?

TwigletAugust 23rd 2013.

Not even remotely.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

Nor do I, and I also strongly support vaccines. Does that mean I work for big pharma? Does it mean I sell vaccines on the sly?

John BradleyAugust 23rd 2013.

Strange that 3 people 1 with a vested interest all turn up at the same time.

Matt ZukowskiAugust 23rd 2013.

It's not strange at all. It was posted on Facebook. Mystery solved, no conspiracy.

John BradleyAugust 24th 2013.

Are so well coordinated. Perhaps you can explain. I also got on personal mention on ukvapers.org/private.php…

GeckoAugust 23rd 2013.

Yet another gift-wrapped turd. Sorry, I've smelt it before, I know what it is, and I ain't buying it. You self-righteous, "if there's any doubt ban it, no skin off my nose", knee-jerk sycophants make me want to spit. I wonder if you stop your kids watching films/programmes in which firearms appear... or if you even understand the differences between parenting and control?

David JonesAugust 23rd 2013.

If you wish to make your views known to Merseytravel they do have Customer Forums at regular intervals in all areas. Bit tricky to find precise details on their website but you can register your interest at forums@merseytravel.gov.uk You may consider dropping them a line expressing your view and asking that it be put before the forum ...

mickeydrippin'August 23rd 2013.

I've no problem at all with e-cigs and I quite like the above picture of the Merseyrail train. This new design was supposed to be a possible replacement for the current ageing fleet of trains but due to various cutbacks etc., the decision has apparently been put on hold.

4 Responses: Reply To This...
Kay C. JonesAugust 24th 2013.

Will they have shorter bogies so screech a lot less on the tight bends of the loop line?

Kay C. JonesAugust 24th 2013.

And that destination window is tiny! How are people expected to read something that small on a moving train?

mickeydrippin'August 27th 2013.

The picture is only an "artist's" impression - it is not a real train.

Kay C. JonesAugust 27th 2013.

Then next time I'm on a Merseyrail Train I'll show them an artist's impression of a Trio Ticket.

AnonymousAugust 23rd 2013.

Unlike cigarettes, they cant really ever enforce a ban of ecigs anyway. Smoke detectors in the loo wont detect anything, there is no smell and you can easily vape without visible vapour. So not sure how they plan to implement this ban...or why.

AlexaJanuary 27th 2014.

They can't enforce it that's for sure. Out of sight out of mind I always say. Besides if a insurance company doesn't consider e-cigs as smoking I dont see why a railway co should e-cigarette-review.net/…/…

AnonymousMay 12th 2014.

Smoking is an "addiction" much the same as hard drugs. It follows that as smokers we are "addicts". Therefore we should be given the e cigs FREE by the government, just as Hard drug addicts are given their Methadone! Is this likely? ...Not a chance, ...the government loves the revenue from smokers, so why would they encourage them to quit? (Now I may be a little cynical..(Ok, a lot!) but I'm sure that if the Government could legalise Hard Drugs they would also LOVE the revenue from taxing them!!!) I have moved over to E Cigs and haven't touched a fag for 3 months+

1 Response: Reply To This...
GasperMay 13th 2014.

It is strange how the NHS treats law-abiding, tax-paying smokers with such hostility whilst showering sympathy and costly resources on illegal drug users...

AnonymousAugust 26th 2014.

I am a 'vaper' after a 40 a day regular-cig habit. I am now vaping 0% strawberry nicotine liquid, having started on the highest e-juice. Vaping DID help me to quit. I failed on patches etc. (To the person who said vaping cannot help you quit smoking - it CAN) My point is: WHY should I be subjected to alcohol and drunk passengers on trains, planes etc? When I cannot vape a 0% nicotine liquid from a device that looks nothing like a real cig. Alcohol is responsible, not only for thousands of deaths, but causes anti-social behaviour to boot. I say ban alcohol on trains/planes as well as ecigs! I don't drink alcohol, but hate it when I am sitting next to drunk passengers or those who reek of alcohol. A 'vaper' can be reported to staff - with alcohol, I can do nothing, because alcohol is not banned. What's good for the goose...... is good for the gander...

AnonymousAugust 26th 2014.

So it seems there IS something worse than someone who has given up smoking - someone who has started puffing on unregulated vapours that have zero track record for safety and can be made anywhere with little in the way of quality standards! Get down off that high horse big boy

2 Responses: Reply To This...
AnonymousAugust 28th 2014.

Ahem, I am NOT a boy, and I am NOT big. I am a slender female for your information. Also I am not on my high horse as you put it. All I said was: Why should I be subjected to alcohol and drunk passengers? Not unreasonable. And another thing: I do not 'puff' away, anywhere where regular smoking is banned. So Anonymous, go and take your rant somewhere else. Those vapours got me OFF a 40-a-day cig habit over 4 years ago! My GP, family and friends are happy - and so am I.

AnonymousAugust 28th 2014.

What would be the point in using 0% nicotine liquids?

Ramsey CampbellAugust 28th 2014.

Surely alcohol is indeed banned on the Merseyrail network. People who smell of alcohol aren't barred from travelling, but then folk who smell of tobacco aren't. Other passengers might object to sitting next to either.

1 Response: Reply To This...
AnonymousAugust 28th 2014.

I'd expect that the vaping ranter still smells like an ash tray after doing 40 a day, not someone I'd like to sit next to

AnonymousAugust 31st 2014.

www.bbc.co.uk/…/uk-england-28983713… swap one poison for another? Clever

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