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Liverpool postal workers were absolutely right to stay out on strike, said Chris Jason.Wrong, said Charlie Butterworth in the debate of the week. Where did you stand?

Published on October 19th 2007.


Still not sorted

Chris Jason defends the ongoing industrial action at Copperas Hill

Liverpool should be proud of the postal workers today manning the picket lines at Copperas Hill.

Here are a group of workers brave enough to defy the judges, bosses and Government to defend their jobs, pay and conditions and the future of a great public service.

They are 800
low-paid men and women battling to keep what little they have

On average they earn just £330 a week. Royal Mail Chief Executive Adam Crozier trousered £1.038 million last year.

Crozier treated us to a xenophobic attack on the posties' alleged "Spanish customs" last week. But the only "Spanish custom" these men and women know is a modest annual family holiday on the Costas. If they are lucky.

Crozier parrots the modern management mantra - demanding "flexibility" from the workforce. Only on his terms, of course. Creatively interpreted by local bosses, this means Liverpool postmen and women starting work half an hour later than normal and working Saturday afternoons.

Meanwhile, the Labour Government, when not hypocritically defending "family values" and the maintenance of a reasonable work/life balance, condemns the so-called “wildcat strike” and upholds Tory legislation which outlaws such action.

Editorialising the dispute, BBC Radio 4, unbelievably, brands the Liverpool postal workers as “militant”!

They are not. They are 800 low-paid men and women battling to keep what little they have – the hours they work, the pensions they have saved, the public service they provide.

Make no mistake, the Royal Mail is bent on destroying one of the last great public services left in Britain. Already crippled by the laissez faire economics of Downing Street’s juvenile policy wonks, the Royal Mail is now being readied for its private competitors.

Postal services which do not make a profit – for the elderly, the blind, for those living in isolated communities - are a no-no.

The Liverpool postal workers are practically alone in responding with a defiant “no”. We should all join them.

Workers are rooted in the past, says Charlie Butterworth

Oh hail, ye Postie swain of olde Liverpul for ye fortitude in battling the mighty behemoths of the wicked empire of business.The only way to address the postal workers of this city is in antiquated and irrelevant language. It's the only language they understand.

The past is where they belong. You see the picket lines and the mind plays tricks, not in the medieval sense, above, but in a more modern manner: you see a different image, one suitable for the BBC series Life on Mars. The pictures go black and white and Jim Callaghan is PM once more. It’s nostalgic for a second and then makes you screaming mad.

The whole point of a union is collective action. It’s not wildcat strikes, it’s not saying, “we’re special up here, we always decide what’s best for us, regardless of the rest.” A union might be selfish, but not within its own membership.

The postal
workers reinforce stereotypes and harm their own cause

The whole strike was misconceived in any case. Fact: the days of organised labour strong-arming government have disappeared. We’ve moved on because we’ve had to, because the situation’s changed, because the mighty manufacturing base has disappeared and the competition has gone global in ways impossible to predict.

And it has to be Liverpool from whence the wildcat strikes are led. The city which, of course, has no reputation for being stuck in the past, for thinking itself so special. The postal workers will achieve nothing for themselves, and less for this city. They reinforce stereotypes and harm their own cause.

Listening to the postal workers' representatives here is like one of those postcards that got lost in the system in 1979 and has just arrived. “Wish you were here”, it says. Not in a bloody month of Sundays. The past is dead, just like dinosaurs.

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148 comments so far, continue the conversation, write a comment.

louOctober 16th 2007.

I'm not talking about registered parcels, these are just 2nd class ones, which are too big for letter box.

G RichmondOctober 16th 2007.

There is an old saying 'never kill the goose that lays the golden egg. The danger is that if you force customers to go elsewhere you may not have a job in the long term.

louOctober 16th 2007.

so they get £330 a week, well thats what I call good money, my hubby is lucky if he gets £230 a week and thats with overtime, he works 40 hrs a week, maybe not in all weathers but his job involves heavy lifting, the posties should thank themselves lucky that they have a good wage.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

I'd suggest you make it plain to your memebers that unnoficial strike action is illegal, round up the ringleaders, sack them, and allow the rest of the workforce to go back to work!!!"I second that emotion

Gussie GooseOctober 16th 2007.

Are this lot just completely brainwashed by the right wing press or what? I thought all the selfish fascist scum went when the Tories finally got smoked out. Talk about dumb Britain...

LouOctober 16th 2007.

My husband get just over the minimum wage, he got a rise last week, what a laugh that was............10p, so the posties should be grateful for what they have been offered. I have no sympathy for them at all. Just get back to work before you dont have a job to go back too!!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Any sympathy that I had for their plight has diminished somewhat, having now had not an iota of post since the beginning of the action. I feel very sorry for small businesses trying to stay afloat - who is going to support them?It will be interesting to see how much of the backlogged post ever turns up!!!

annoyedOctober 16th 2007.

some of us cant get jobs and its not for the want of trying, they should be grateful they have jobs, they dont deserve to work, SACK THEM ALL!!!!!!

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Stolen from BBC Liverpool Postal strike enters seventh day The Liverpool action arises out of a dispute over shift patterns Postal workers in Liverpool are continuing their unofficial strike action for a seventh day. Members of the Communication Workers' Union (CWU) nationally have called off a three-day walkout scheduled to start on Wednesday. This is a gesture of goodwill while negotiations continue to reach an agreement on pay and shift patterns. But staff in Liverpool remain unsatisfied with the terms of the deal and voted to stay out on strike. Mark Walsh, Liverpool CWU branch secretary, said he and his members were coming under increasing pressure from union bosses. Mass meeting He said: "There is a meeting with all the delivery office representatives and we are hoping to talk with the management after that and we will see where we can move from there. "There is a mass meeting pencilled in for tomorrow but that depends on what happens today." The national strike action was over pay, pensions and working practices. Staff in Liverpool want to return to work, said Mr Walsh, but disagree with planned changes to their shift patterns. They started their unofficial action last Wednesday. /////////////////////////////////////Mass meeting Thursday so clearly they won,t be going in tomorrow either.Totally out of order another nail in the Unions coffin they really are playing right into Royal Mails hands.

getting fedup with no mailOctober 16th 2007.

If they have families to consider why dont they get back to work, its getting to near xmas, dont they want there children to have one! Personally I dont care what time I get my mail as long as it arrives, afternoon doesnt seem that bad, some people work during the morning and this would fit in with them if they are getting parcels delivered.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

At bleedin last they have just said on Rdio City they have voted to go back to work about time well done lads and ladies go do some work PLEASE

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

330 a week - thats more than a lot of people get for doing more work. The union is there to represent it's members, wildcat strikes undermine them and turns the public against the WHOLE of the post office. It's just another case of Scousers somehow thinking they're better than anyone else. As an Ex-postie all I can say is you make me sick. Whinge whinge whinge - that's all we hear from Liverpool these days.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Low paid on £330 a week??? HOW many hours did you say - about 25??? That's over £13 an hour - more than a newly-qualified teacher facing a classful of teenage thugs with double-ASBO and a couple of Bars, and carrying a debt of £15K from a four year degree course at University which has to be paid off!!After a lifetime teaching I was forced by ill health to take early retirement and must now exist on £75 - yes SEVENTY-FIVE POUNDS!!! - per week. Low pay? Sorry, I can't even raise a grin over this, certainly not a real laugh!

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

"instead of relying on handouts from the government." - what you mean like half the people living in Liverpool. It's not the only place with high unemployment you know. Funnily enough I used to be a postie and when we moved here 3 months ago I asked our postman about vacancies and he said "there's always jobs at the post office as it doesn't matter where you go in the country people don't like getting up at 5 in the morning". So I applied - i'm waitng for a vacancy to come up at the moment. I loved the job, I have never been as fit, the people I worked with were some of the best workmates I've encountered and the pay wasn't as bad for what you did as many of the jobs I've had. I have never signed on the dole and have spent most of my life contributing to the millions in "government handouts" that get given to places like liverpool every year for as long as I can remember. So I won't have a scouser accusing me of "sponging of the government".

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Thier greed will end up finishing the post office.I have sat in a garage with no customers but I couldn't come in early or go before my time was up.Do the hours you should work (British)- not the hours you want to work (Spanish)

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

you can't do it on the internet and we live in western cornwall so no, we havn't got a "one stop shop"

AndrewOctober 16th 2007.

Most of you are two faced!What would you do if you were told -work 5 years longer?work longer hours in the winter?not knowing if you were working at your local office or 30 miles away?do overtime for nothing?being promised bonus year after year but nothing - nothing but lies!work flexible when it suits managers?we would do this if we was on 30 grand a year but we aint so dont give it all the bollocks, no one would stand for it and we wont give in.Up the liverpool posties!!!!!(from essex postie)

BBC NEWSOctober 16th 2007.

News FlashLatest news reports advise that a cell of 4 terrorists has been operating in Merseyside, Liverpool. Police advised earlier today that 3 of the 4 have been detained. The Merseyside Regional Police Commissioner stated that the terrorists Bin Thievin, Bin Drinkin and Bin Fightin have been arrested on immigration issues.The Police advise further that they can find no one fitting the description of the fourth cell member, Bin Workin, in the area. Police are confident that anyone who looks like Workin will be very easy to spot in the community.

JOHN nuneatonOctober 16th 2007.

ever body has the right to a living wage the postmen/women deliver in all weathers most of us would love to strike over wage claims but most unions sold our rights to strike.I support you.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

When this dispute started i was 100% behind the posties and remained so even though the strikes since June have lost our internet buisness alot of money.Now i have nothing but contempt for the post workers of Liverpool they are letting down thier Unions,customers and families by refusing to work while the Unions are trying to sort an agreement.I am having to make different arrangments for posting this week and will be using these same arrangments in the future.Get back to work your a laughing stock, Regards Pissed of Liverpool buisness

John MooneyOctober 16th 2007.

Anonymous says.." The registered parcels have been getting delivered by the royal mail bosses themselfs so they will have no backlog of them. So sorry you won't be able to claim for them as it's not the postmens problem!!!"/////////You clearly have no idea how the postal service works

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Sorry Terry i have to disagree with you , the whole mail system need a revamp it.The only thing thats 1980,s about this is the Liverpool workers atitude towards change.The Luddites need to evolve.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

ian says.." to all that have been selfish thinking of their own little world i hope that if and when your employer treats you like dirt and treads you into the ground you are not slagged off like many of you have done to the posties for wanting to protect your family and pension"//////////////Ian surely thats what the postal workers in Liverpool have been doing protecting their "own little world" HYPOCRITE

Angie the EdOctober 16th 2007.

We are the most liberal of sites when it comes to your comments and we welcome all your thoughts. We will, however, remove aimless insults and expletives and have done in a couple of cases above. But please keep the comments coming in what is turning out to be a very interesting debate.

annoyedOctober 16th 2007.

yes your right mother shipton, about people lining up to take their jobs, Im surprised they havent took any polish workers on, I bet these would jump at the chance of a job that pays £330 a week. They should stop and think about what they are doing to liverpool!!

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

And YOU are living proof of that now arent you?????????

Just a thoughtOctober 16th 2007.

If a Fly had no wings would it be called a walk ?.

Postman on strikeOctober 16th 2007.

I would like to say that they are doing it for the public to give them a better service to deliver their mail at the earliest possible time and not waiting until noon or later to receive mail threw your door. They have gone with out pay for over 2 weeks now. So the peopel who are moaning about cheques in post bare in mind that the post men and women are not being payed for trying to give the public a better service.

jOctober 16th 2007.

Oh shut the **** up, they should be grateful they have jobs, moaning little gets. GET BACK TO WORK THE LOT OF YOU, no one where i live is supporting you. Your making it worse for yourselves, selfish idiots!!!!

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

"It was definetly a show of hands vote" - says it all really

Jennifer EcclesOctober 16th 2007.

They can't afford it. But then, they can't afford not to.

JTOctober 16th 2007.

At the end of the day striking is not going to change anything, instead it will just lose the sympathy of the general public and create problems for people who rely on the postal service for money and medicine. How about the government protecting the workers conditions? Postal Workers pay tax. The country needs a good reliable postal service. I know how seriously the majority of postal workers take their job and they don't want to let people down but this is currently the only way they have to raise awareness of the problem because nobody seems to want to listen or help.

TerryOctober 16th 2007.

Well I wouldn't fancy the chances of his eBay slacks turning up anytime soon!

maryOctober 16th 2007.

Its a disgrace, Im ashamed to be a scouser cos ofthese idiots, they could have gone back when everyone else did, theyobviously dont care about anyone else, businesses are suffering because ofthese people. Its so damn frustrating we havent had any mail since the4th oct..its now the 16th oct! These people should be grateful they havea job, in my husband's works if they have any grieviances (he hasnt got aunion) his boss just tells them to put up with it, as he would just replacethem with polish people, this is what the royal mail should do, they dontdeserve to be working.. just SACK THE LOT OF THEM!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I'm looking for another job. Why do you want to give me one?

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I need to clarify something here. As a postman I do get £330 before tax, in the bank I take home between £230-£250 a week. I hope this clear up the bantter about £330 a week. That's for delivering too 800 houses a day, in all weathers, being threatened by the members of the public for not delivering Giro's on time. So please go ahead put your name forward to be a post person and see how hard the job really is.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

You are so very rude Fittssssyyyyy. I hope you will be one of the public who receive you mail as late as possible and by a non speaking casual work the the post office employ.

John MooneyOctober 16th 2007.

Curly Wee says.." Fantastic Tony."LOL the only thing thats still stuck in the eighty,s more than that post is the rubik,s cube i particularly like the Rik Mayall Bastards bit.It,s time to move on the eighties are over.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Yes my partner is a postman and yes we do have children. No we are not getting any money for him being on strike. They are passionate about the job and this is why they want to give the public a better service. The fat cat doesn't care about the workers or what time the post gets taken out as long as the postmen don't finish before the time they are supposed too. Which therefore means that they have to sit around after sorting out the mail until 10am to deliver the publics mail, which in turn means that they have to make alternative arrangements for childcare etc......

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Just goes too show that Liverpool have strong values in what the beleive in. I hope that none of you ebuyers ever need any support. P.S get a proper job you sad people

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I tell you what, you all will be the first to moan when you receive your post late at night to the postman. So give them a break they are only trying to give the public a good service. If you don't want that then don't moan when you recieve your post late evening.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Sorry mate your wrong there Wakefield have just walked out today. Over the same thing as Liverpool have.

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

It seems that it's alright for the "poor hard done by" militants striking to complain about their wages and working hours, what about the families who are suffering because of their actions as Andy Lawrence just pointed out? I hope they are satisfied with themselves, and should this situation continue, then I know that that there will be no fellow feeling for them from anywhere in the country. Striking is one thing, witholding vital money from those who need it (which is what they are doing whether they like to think so or not), is an entirley other thing. I would go so far to say that it's downright evil, and I for one will now be supporting the idea of sacking the lot of them immediatley - and I shall make my feelings VERY plain to the Royal Mail on this. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - I cannot stand by and watch these ignorant idiots destroy families on the minimum wage - and this is what is happening!

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

relation of a hard working postie, oh, and he doesnt agree with this wildcat strike any more than the majority of the public do!

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

Thanks Fitsssy, I only have one thing to say regarding the article you kindly posted: "CWU branch manager Mark Walsh said: “There has been no progress but we are prepared to talk with management at any time. We have made that clear but they will not compromise. “All the workers want is negotiation and we apologise again to those who are suffering.”" My comment to Mr Walsh - If you really wish to appologise - I'd suggest you make it plain to your memebers that unnoficial strike action is illegal, round up the ringleaders, sack them, and allow the rest of the workforce to go back to work!!!

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Jennifer, as an overfed spoilt ebayer can i just say your missing the point abit.Great post an i,ll say it again i supported the strike right from June even though i lost money.The wildcat strikes are illegal they can,t justify it .It,s sod all to do with the Tories or the 1980,s that unpleasant era has gone if the Mail service does not modernise then it will cease to exsist.Whilst the posties had my support i could still see the need for change their actions in Liverpool reinforce that view.£330 a week for doing an UNSKILLED job is not bad pay at all .//////Stands back and waits for the cheif button presser at Mount Pleasent to get offended

annoyedOctober 16th 2007.

I would sort my own mail out, if they let me. I hope they all lose their jobs cos thats what will happen, with all the business they've lost, lets see whose moaning then, when RM make them redundant, now that will be funny, lol, lol

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

Well, considering that that was made illegal some time ago, I'd Suggest that every postie who wants to return to work in Liverpool COMPLAINS STRONGLY to the CWU about what is going on there. You have it within your power to stop this - and you don't need to do it by a show of hands. Keep badgering the Union, and they will HAVE to take action against the ringleaders!

BarneyOctober 16th 2007.

Are the management allowed to change working hours without consultation, it take two to tango. If we dont have democracy we have anarchy think abot it

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

good point fitsssy, the best one I got was a crate of beer - and a warm jacket from an old woman who said "you take this, you looked like a drowned rat, and my husband hasn't worn it for years - he won't miss it". wonder what he said when he did.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Joe Johnston says.." Sack the lot of them - NOW"Yes i can see how that will get the mail delivered ! Lordy schools out!

Up the postiesOctober 16th 2007.

Maybe they can't afford computers on £230 a week

louOctober 16th 2007.

yes they should feel guilty, my cousin is housebound and uses the internet alot to buy her presents and other stuff, she is so upset, and is now trying to find companies that arent using RM for delivery. This cant carry on much longer surely. Cant the bosses do something about it!

Power to the peopleOctober 16th 2007.

Adam Crozier has put some very clever spin on his case. I agree. This is all about fattening the goose for greedy shareholders and stuff the workers.

Tony ParrishOctober 16th 2007.

Yes the posties should be grateful for being allowed to breathe the air too. (come to think it, why doesn't someone privatise that too - they privatised water after all and look what a great success that has been - just like British Rail, the buses, gas, electricity, etc, etc, etc.). I think the posties should actually pay Adam Crozier anohter million quid out of their astronomical wages for the privilege of delivering the mail. Ungrateful wretches. Of course they should be obeying the law too - after all the law has always been on the side of working people hasn't it? And that great friend of Liverpool, Mrs T introduced it. So it must be fair. Anyone who disobeys the law like these idle malingerers should be locked in jail and the key thrown away. Then they should be made to lie in the road and allow all those people who have never exceeded the legal speed limit to drive over them. Then anyone who has taken a pen home from work, should be able to jab it in the posties eyes for having the audacity to break the law. I know people who earn £4 an hour (less than the LEGAL minimum wage, incidentally - so who is breaking the law, now, folks?) and are suitably grateful for that. They also have to lick the shoes of their millionaire bosses for the privilege of turning up at 5 am every morning. Which is only as it should be. In the 21st century. Are you lot out of your tiny minds? Just because your house sales have been delayed, or your husbands are even worse paid, does not give you the right to virtually call for a return to Dickensian, master and serf, working conditions. You reactionary bastards. Get real. The posties are acting in the finest tradition of Liverpool - strong-minded, independent, determined and united. You bastards who critiscise them are a disgrace to everything that has made our city great.

stevenOctober 16th 2007.

I left school in 1984, with unemployment in my part of scotland in the worst 5%. I got on with it, others didn't. To blame Thatcher is a bit desperate. Also , what exactly is the "working class" these days? Not wanting to work on Saturdays? Shouting that they have to go out in "all weathers"? What the hell did they think postmen actually did? If your life isnt good enough stop bitching or holding the rest of the country to ransom and get another job. Pathetic -be accountable to yourselves for a change.

tristan@2mmedia.comOctober 16th 2007.

is it over or the calm before the storm. Answers on a sae please. or rather not.

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

I do hope the vote on tuesday was a secret ballot, and not a hands up ballot.... a hands up ballot would be a major source of intimidation for those posties who would want to return to work....

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

Wildcat strikes can mean only one thing for those involved. Taking things down to a simple level - wildcat strikes are ILLEGAL. Illegal srike action can and SHOULD result in those continuing to strike losing their jobs. I'd suggest to those continuing on this course that they think long and hard about what they are doing. It isn't hard to find new workers, especially in areas like Liverpool where I know there will be people lining up to take over jobs from lazy ignorant posties who only care about themselves. The writing's on the wall lads, what are you going to do about it? Get back to work you lazy bunch of good - for - nothings!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

All I can say is that you are taring all the postmen and women with the same brush. My partner and many others voted to go back yesterday regardless of the changes but they were still inundated with postment and women wanting to saty out for a fairer deal. Instead of a hands up ballot they should have had a paper ballot. That's my opinion anyway

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

yeah everythin Liverpool is, a lazy workforce!!

Up the postiesOctober 16th 2007.

I'm not a postie. I'm on £25k a year with a nice cushy life and a big house, but still find some sympathy. You?

callyOctober 16th 2007.

I have no sympathy for the postal workers, I am waiting on lots of stuff from ebay, I also sell on ebay and its not doing sellers any good. Trust it to be liverpool that stays out, Im ashamed to be scouser.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Have you tried filling the form out on the internet? Or go to the one stop shop.

louOctober 16th 2007.

yayyy they are going back, we can all stop moaning now. thanks all

ianOctober 16th 2007.

to all that have been selfish thinking of their own little world i hope that if and when your employer treats you like dirt and treads you into the ground you are not slagged off like many of you have done to the posties for wanting to protect your family and pension

cjayOctober 16th 2007.

yes I agree, they are making things worse and with the xmas rush coming up, they will be so behind when they do go back. Its affecting everyone here in liverpool, they could go on a go slow as someone else suggested, at least then mail would be getting delivered. I HATE THE LOT OF THEM.

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

Polly - I think most people realise the situation. I thought voting by a show of hands was made illegal because of the repercussions form voting "the wrong way", but I heard thats just how the vote was taken about continuing the action. I think it should be up to the union to discipline the union reps in liverpool for acting alone. It looks like sometime soon I'll be a postman too, so this dispute affects me in more ways than one, as I'll have to face the animosity caused by this.

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

Thankyou for that information anonymous. Just out of interest, I phoned them. Yes you can report a change, but, if the change is deemed significant, then they do have to issue new forms (and at this point a claim WILL be suspended), and so, it seems that not every change of circumstance can be passed on over the phone. SHAME ON YOU!

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

" Why aren't more of the posties coming on here?"one can only surmise that it is because of a total lack of backbone...

fedup with no mailOctober 16th 2007.

yes get the polish people in, the posties should be grateful for having jobs, they are really taking the piss now its the end of oct soon and I hope they have sorted it out by then. Some people rely on the internet to buy their xmas pressies, like disabled people that cant get to the shops or people that work and are too busy to go shopping. I hope they realise there will be a lot of disappointed children at xmas, also there own children whom they will not have any money to buy presents for, well I hope they can live with that guilt, when they have to explain why santa cant bring their children any presents and all because daddy went on unoffcial strike illegaly. GET BACK TO WORK!!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

the wildcat strikes who realy suffers the public that you say there trying to protect plus as one user said id to like to see how much of this back log does go missing and as another user said about getting your mail early we here where i live are lucky if we get post before 2pm nearly everyday of the week so some of the arguments people are making for the postal workers are not just

Joe JohnstonOctober 16th 2007.

Sack the lot of them - NOW

baldrikOctober 16th 2007.

sorry, the quote should be "There are a lot of very selfish people aren't there? £330 works out at £17k"

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

It was definetly a show of hands vote

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I hope they go back to work soon, people are turning against - them me included. I`ve had no post for two week. I understood when it was national, but not now ...why are Liverpool posties so difficult? They are giving Liverpool a bad name. I don`t know how they can afford to strike and not get paid I know I couldn`t??

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

Maybe we should petition the CWU and anyone else we can think of!!!!!!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Why is everyone posting as "Anonymous"? Are they frightened that the posties are taking names and addresses for later retribution?

BiggsyOctober 16th 2007.

They are greedy b...s, and dont deserve to work, they should be grateful they have jobs.

Polish LadOctober 16th 2007.

Yes, give me the jobs.

MarkOctober 16th 2007.

While I feel sympathy for the post workers there action is completely inappropriate and again shows Liverpool in a bad light to the rest of the UK. By striking they only effect the weak, elderly and small businesses. We are in an age that everything can be done electronically and the longer they strike more people will turn away from the post and to there keyboards so well done you wildcats, you are killing your future and alienating those that really rely on you. If you want to make a statement boycott government addresses only and get back to servicing those that really need you, not punishing them.

Curly WeeOctober 16th 2007.

Fantastic Tony.

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

6.9% over two years, thats a better deal than I've had in other jobs. Looks like I made the right choice in applying for a job with the post office. Working Saturdays? no probs, done it before - but then again i'm not a football fan. I take it theres still the overtime at christmas (very handy)

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Anonymous says.." They would not be able to claim to have delivered it unless they had the persons signature on it."/////////////////////////////#Like i say you clearly have as much clue about delivering post as your Partner and his work shy "workmates"

GEORGE GRIEVEOctober 16th 2007.

TYPICAL THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS BACK AT WORK BUT LIVERPOOL STAYS OUT.EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE THAT LOST LIVERPOOL MANUFACTURING JOBS IN THE SEVENTIES.IF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WAS ON STRIKE I COULD AGREE WITH THEM.SO THEY ARE LOSING MONEY AND I CAN GO INTO SOUTHPORT AND POST MY LETTERS!PITY I CANNOT GET ANY REPLIES

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Anonymous says.." Posties contribute to taxes and national insurance. Do any of you ebuyers?. Don't be too quick to judge!!!!!"////////////////I can,t speak for anyone else but we are a fully VAT registered buisness with premises in Liverpool with an averagre weekly spend with Royal Mail of £200 which is now being spent elsewhere .Why are you sat at home on your pc insulting ROYAL MAIL customers and not on the picket line if you don,t mind me asking ?

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I have some cheques in the post and my sympathy for the postal workers is wearing a bit thin now. I'm afraid.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I hope they go back to work soon, its absolute madness, cant they see how people are turning against them, it was ok last week when it was national, people sort of understood, but now its a mess, not looking good for the capital of culture though is it!

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

FROM THE BBC "The Communication Workers' Union (CWU) has called off strike action which had been set for later this week. The suspension comes as the union's executive continues talks on whether to accept a Royal Mail deal. The CWU must decide whether or not to recommend the offer, which is aimed at resolving a long-running row over pay, jobs and pensions. An announcement is expected on Tuesday on whether the CWU will accept Royal Mail's 6.9% pay rise over two years. A series of 48-hour stoppages and unofficial walkouts is estimated to have cost Royal Mail more than £200m."The Unions have called off this weeks strike yet the Liverpool Workers still remain out disgusted

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

Does anyone know if they saved the "final salary pension scheme" (theoretically I've still got money in that from the last time I worked there)

pebbleOctober 16th 2007.

Doubtless some of the posties wil be doing it for the right reasons. But how many of those who are on strike now will immediately volunteer for overtime to clear the backlog once they go back to work-and if they were so ethical they claim it was for the service of the public, let them do it at plain time rate and see how many would volunteer then. Working to rule is far more effective than striking and striking against the majority wishes of your union is militant. And 6.7% over three years is a fairly standard offer-most public services are being asked to have pay rises of around 2%, 2.5% a year-why should posties be any different.

Jennifer EcclesOctober 16th 2007.

The point is all about shift patterns here. How can Crozier just turn people's lives upside down by demanding that they start working at 6am and work Saturday afternoons - WITHOUT ANY NEGOTIATION? People have families and children and family life on this sort of wage is tough enough. Thatcher brought the country's working classes to their knees and now the posties are expected to be grateful that they have a job. There is a huge amount of trust and faith that we put in our postal workers and they deserve respect, not some of the reactionary, green-ink rubbish that overfed and spoilt eBayers have been meting out here. If I wasn't completely with the posties before, I certainly am now.

Terry PorterOctober 16th 2007.

I still feel sorry for the postmen and women. £230 a week to bring yourself and kids up on is no life at all. Can any of them afford to buy houses? I doubt it on that wage. And you can say that this has nothing to do with Thatcher, but the legacy she gave to the working classes and their children was an evil one where greed ruled all and sod the rights of ordinary people who are now told they should be grateful to not be on the dole. A legacy where perfectly good corpy houses were sold off so that now there is a ever-more needy population of honest hard workers relying on the greedy buy-to-let culture of rich landlords. How polarised this nation has become, and it has everything to do with the 1980s.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Stolen from the BBC///Postal workers in Liverpool have agreed to end an eight-day unofficial strike. About 90% of striking Communication Workers' Union (CWU) members voted to return to work. The walk-out was called off after workers said they appeared to have been promised the right of local negotiation over flexible working. Workers will return to work on the Thursday late shift - 13 days after any mail has been delivered to most of the local area. Staff have been told flexible working appeared to be contained in the national deal currently under discussion at the TUC. Deliveries tomorrow CWU official Mark Walsh said: "We are obviously glad to get our members back to work, get the public's mail out and keep negotiations about working hours on the table. "There are no disciplinary issues outstanding." Mr Walsh said post staff would head back to work on Thursday and deliveries should resume by Friday morning. Postal workers in Liverpool started their wildcat strike last Wednesday after an official strike had halted mail deliveries

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Well there,s still time for it to go the shape of the pear yet.I,ll beleive it when i see post in my letter box

I want my mailOctober 16th 2007.

You cant tell me posties cant afford computers, they get a good wage, they probably feel too ashamed to defend themselves. Im pissed off with the lot of them, why didnt they just stick to the official strike dates. They've made a show of liverpool, they are making a rod for their own backs. GET BACK TO WORK THE LOT OF YOU!!!

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

I have no problem with ordinary posties, God love em, its the idiots who are picketing I think should be sacked. Lets get some order reinstated, and allow those who are afraid to walk through the picket lines (and yes it is running the gauntlet) get back to work. When I said "Sack the lot of them" I meant the idiots on the picket lines, not hardworking posties unable to work because of them, but still want to do their jobs.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

How to report the changesYou can contact the Tax Credit helpline on 0845 300 3900, textphone 0845 300 3909.Lines are open from 8.00 am to 8.00 pm every day including weekends (except Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Day and Easter Sunday).It takes a short time to update your details, so you may not see any changes for up to 36 hours.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

A small percenatage of them are queing for replacment tickets for the Derby on Saturday because thier original ones are stuck in the post.Ironic!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

What is this male awaiting? A spellchecker?

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

ian says.." no not a hypocrite just i am just aware of other peoples issues, everyone just seems to want to get on with there own little worlds and not show some empathy for others, that is why society is in such a mess"////////////////////////Twaddle you sounds like Morriesy,s new song writer.I apologise for having an opinion about something that has affected me deeply during the last two weeks

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

The registered parcels have been getting delivered by the royal mail bosses themselfs so they will have no backlog of them. So sorry you won't be able to claim for them as it's not the postmens problem!!!

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

But they have gone against the Unions and thats not right people can see there,s a deal on the table the right thing to do is to go back to work and let the Union do there job that is what i strongly object to.Going against the Unions can only weaken the Unions hands.Royal Mail would be within their rights to dimiss them all and it has been hinted at that "ring leaders" could be dismissed.Your loyalty to your partner is touching.It,s a shame the Liverpool postal workers could not have shown that sort of Loyalty to their Union

Les KirklandOctober 16th 2007.

As a fromer postman, who retired last year after 27 years on the streets, I can say that this Labour Government's one aim is to destroy the postal service of this country and crush the union. In the end it is the public who will suffer with a more expensive service, less deliveries and with far fewer post offices. Support your postman now or in a very few years there will be no service left and we will look back on the postal service of today as a lost golden age.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

It was a hands up ballot

Awaiting maleOctober 16th 2007.

Give the postal jobs to polish people.Typical Scouse pondlife. Get back to work and support your families and not some idealistic cr*p feed to you by the Demi-gods you call Seniors or union officials. You posties wanna try being a nurse like me, low pay, long hours.

andy lawrenceOctober 16th 2007.

all you "class struggle" types posting should really stop living in stereotype land. I support the union - the delivery service of the royal mail will never be profitable thatcher saw to that when she seperated the parcel force and counter services. The thing that gets my goat is that somehow postmen in Liverpool think its ok to hold up the nations post for weeks on end. I am unemployed at the moment and my wife is earning £50 a week working part time for the british legion - we are "working class" and struggling to feed two children and pay the rent etc. we had just about managed to cope thanks to family tax credits. Due to the change in circumstances our claim has been suspended until we can fill out a form outlining these. this was just befor the 48Hr stoppage (which, i repeat, I supported). the form is still in bloody liverpool somewhere and we have run out of money - WE ARE SKINT.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Anonymous says.." Yes I do as my parnter a manager of the postal service has been delivering registered mail since the strike. Why do you know how it works????" My dad,s a pilot can i fly a plane ? If you have a certificate of posting you can claim for items not delivered after 15 days regardless of whether your partner or the pope claims to have delivered it .

JTOctober 16th 2007.

At the end of the day striking is not going to change anything, instead it will just lose the sympathy of the general public and create problems for people who rely on the postal service for money and medicine. How about the government protecting the workers conditions? Postal Workers pay tax. The country needs a good reliable postal service. I know how seriously the majority of postal workers take their job and they don't want to let people down but this is currently the only way they have to raise awareness of the problem because nobody seems to want to listen or help.

baldrikOctober 16th 2007.

curly wee says "Here are a group of workers brave enough to defy the judges, bosses and Government to defend their jobs, pay and conditions and the future of a great public service." I've done the job mate - and you know what, I'm thinking of going back. why?, because with similarly paid jobs that I've done you have to work a damn sight harder. yeh, so it can be heavy at times and if delivering you get wet and cold - try being a fisherman for one. also the overtime at christmas bumps up the wages quite nicely. Perhaps people in liverpool are just lazier than in the rest of the country.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

The city is already a laughing stock it doesn't need a postman on strike to do that. All they want is a fair deal not to sit around until 10am before they can go out and post the mail to the public.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Anonymous says.." Just goes too show that Liverpool have strong values in what the beleive in. I hope that none of you ebuyers ever need any support. P.S get a proper job you sad people "/////////////////////////////////////Brilliant ! Now i,m confused yesterday you loved us and were only taking strike action for us the people who you cared so much about and buisnesses you were so worried about them getting their mail at 5 past the buisness hour.Today you hate me i,m a sad loser !! My heart,s broken.

anonOctober 16th 2007.

"Liverpool postmen and women starting work half an hour later than normal and working Saturday afternoons." So that's why no mail is coming out of Liverpool. I've worked Saturdays most of my life - and started early. Drop the pretence of "Here are a group of workers brave enough to defy the judges, bosses and Government to defend their jobs, pay and conditions and the future of a great public service. and admit the truth - you don't want to miss the football!!!!!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Well just thing Andy Lawrence. If all the posties get sacked you will be able to apply for a job instead of relying on handouts from the government. P.S don't forget the posties contribute to those handouts you get.

Up the posties tooOctober 16th 2007.

Why aren't more of the posties coming on here?

Mother ShiptonOctober 16th 2007.

ROFLMAO!

The Ragged Trouser PostlessOctober 16th 2007.

I agree onehundred percent with anyone who takes home a poxy wage like the P.O.Workers do.How many of the objectors to the P.O.Workers take home a wage like they do ?.My big concern is that this dispute is being management led they want the Postal Workers to be seen in a bad light to the daft British public who will belive anything our right wing press say about them.I rember Standard Triumph in Speke.They had a bad product the TR7 it was not passed for sale in the U.S.A.The management had spent millons on it and now could not sell it,so what did they do ?.They created impossible industrial relations blaming the workers for everything.The workers fell for the management ploy and took strike action.they were blamed in every British Newspaper for harming Standard Triumph and bringing about its closure.Adam Crozier is there Michael Edwards.Best of luck lads but becarefull you do not fall for the same plan as the British Leyland workers did.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I am so annoyed at some people. The postmen are only trying to keep a good public service going. Do you think that they like striking for the fun off it and receiving no pay for it. They have families to support to you know.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Yes I do as my parnter a manager of the postal service has been delivering registered mail since the strike.Why do you know how it works????

ANDREWOctober 16th 2007.

The entire postal service in the city sticking together..It's a shame the rest of us can't be like that!!!!!Up the posties(Essex postie.)

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Do you think that they postmen get much more then that. They have deliver in all weathers, only the other week did a psotman gets shot in the hand in South Liverpool. As regards to the backlog and over time. The post office will bring in casual labour as it's cheaper to pay them than it is to pay the postmen overtime. That's were your parcels will go missing Lou.

JayOctober 16th 2007.

So what is Crozier is paid over £1m, he has worked his way up the corporate ladder and is obviously now respected enought to earn this type of money, would you say no if it was offered to you.I think that the posties are selfish in continuing their actions because there are many people suffering from not receiving post, me included. Also it doesn't exaclty help with the stereotypical view of Scousers stiking at the drop of a hat, how are we meant to attract new business to the city when we have workers with a reputation for troublemaking.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

It,s rubbish to say it,s the Unions pulling strings,it,s the usual had it good for too long millitant bullies that are "pulling the strings".Four posties i have spoken to have told me the unions are desperate for this to end before Royal Mail do start sacking people they are after all breaking the law and damaging the company would you employ people to do that to your buisness?

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Right Sod it.i,m off to Wigan to post some packages anyone want a Wigan kebab !!!! Royal Mail Liverpool MY ARSE

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Liverpool needs this like like a hole in the head - postal workers, YET AGAIN,are giving Liverpool a really bad name - we will never attract NEW inward investment when our reputation as a great city keeps being slammed by people unwilling to adapt to the modern world.

Liverpool ConfidentialOctober 16th 2007.

Updated story to follow fitssssy...

Curly WeeOctober 16th 2007.

There are a lot of very selfish people aren't there? £330 works out at £17k. It's an insulting wage for the job they have to do. And when you are sitting at your computer ordering oversized clothes from eBay as an indulgent pastime, think on about the conditions these posties have to work under. I agree with Ragged Trouser Postless, this is all about divide and conquer.

Postman PatOctober 16th 2007.

There would probably be more posties coming on here to defend themselves - if they could afford computers

PollyOctober 16th 2007.

My partner and many other posties would love an end to this strike to get back to work. But unfortunalty would not walk past the picket line. The vote on Tuesday was close for them to go back. So please don't state that all posties should be sacked. As many of them want to go back.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Andy you forgot the xmas tips LOL

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

I wish the postal workers would get themselves together - you have the men at the top (who have never done a post round in their lives) The wool is being pulled over their eyes - ifyou could just do something like a management buyout - our postal srvice is the best in the world and these ozzies like TNT are winning all the contract - dont do yourselves out of a job......nominate a spokesman and let him guide you

London RoadOctober 16th 2007.

Even though my business is suffering because of this, I'm still with the posties all the way. Yes, this is all about polishing and poncing up the Royal Mail for private hands. There is a lot more at stake than a change to shift patterns.

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Anonymous says.." You are so very rude Fittssssyyyyy. I hope you will be one of the public who receive you mail as late as possible and by a non speaking casual work the the post office employ."/////////////////////////////Thanks V grown up.If you feel the wildcat action is right well your entitled to your opinion.Just reading this thread most surely make you realise that people are turning against the Liverpool workers now.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

They would not be able to claim to have delivered it unless they had the persons signature on it.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

How dare you say sack the lot. What is so important in the post anyway apert from bill that can be taken out of you bank threw direct debt. The do want to go back to work but for all your INFORMATION it's the union who is pulling the postall workers strings keeping them out. Please get your facts straight before ranting about peoples lively hoods.

stevenOctober 16th 2007.

if you dont like your jobs get a new one. PATHETIC. Apart from anything else you will neer win, this isnt the seventies. If the conditions are poor do yourself a favour and learn to type. S Glasgow

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Also as for the back log and the Christmas mail. Royal mail workers don't get the option on overtime anymore that was taken away from us some time again when the bosses decided to bring in casual workers. So please don't be too quick to judge us, until you know the true facts about the service.

well cheesed offOctober 16th 2007.

I had sympathy,I have none now! All my house move documents have been stuck for over 8 days now and so my moving house is being decided by the postmen of liverpool! Not impresssed. get back to work!

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

Stolen from todays Daily post////////////////No end in sight to wildcat strike by city post workersOct 17 2007///////by Liza Williams, Liverpool Daily Post/////////////////////////WILDCAT postal strikes are to continue in Liverpool today after Royal Mail workers failed to reach agreement with either their union or managers.It means local workers have been out on unofficial action for a week since a two-day nationwide official action ended last Wednesday.Nationally the Communication Workers Union has agreed to suspend official planned strikes for today, tomorrow and Friday, as they continued to consider a proposed deal aimed at resolving the bitter mail dispute.But in Liverpool talks between Royal Mail and union leaders made no headway yesterday, with 21 depots still out of action in the city, and 800 postal staff still boycotting work.///////////////////////////////Local workers are defying the CWU’s recommendation to return to work, as they say they have not yet reached agreement over changes to shift patterns. It comes as the wave of unofficial action spread across the country to Yorkshire for the first time yesterday.Hundreds of workers at a huge distribution centre in Normanton, near Wakefield, took industrial action, hitting deliveries in the region.The executive of the CWU met for a second day yesterday to decide whether to recommend the deal, which includes a 6.9% pay increase over two years.But workers in Liverpool say they are not prepared to go back to work without any assurances from local union officials, who are still unclear as to the contents of the national agreement.CWU branch manager Mark Walsh said: “There has been no progress but we are prepared to talk with management at any time. We have made that clear but they will not compromise.“All the workers want is negotiation and we apologise again to those who are suffering.”The unofficial action started last Wednesday after two official 48-hour strikes over job conditions, pay and pensions.Liverpool staff are unhappy their starting hours have been changed and weekend working is being introduced. Many say it will affect their family lives.A mass meeting was held on Monday at the Liner Hotel in the city, where members voted to carry on with the action.Antony Stone, from Walton who works at the city’s Copperas Hill, depot said after the meeting: “Everyone was going to return to work until the question about shift patterns came up.“When we were told we would still have to start at 6am and then work Saturday afternoons, without any negotiation, that was the turning point.“The new shift patterns, which have been imposed, will really affect our lives.”A Royal Mail spokesperson said: “The national executive of the union are still considering the deal and we are hopeful that if they do approve the deal our people in Liverpool will return to work.”

Frankly ShanklyOctober 16th 2007.

Really sterling writing from your main authors, I have to say. This site's rocking.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Am I delighted that the postal workers are striking so that I get my post earlier in the day? I don't care when it arrives - as long as it arrives!! Get back to work and stop making a mockery of this city - it needs all the help and good press it can possibly muster.

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

If you want to save the postal service,leave the jobs you hate so much and allow people who do want to work to take your places.

louOctober 16th 2007.

yes lets see how many parcels dont turn up when they do go back, I will be claiming for mine. Its giving liverpool a bad name, arent we already the butt of people's jokes, they all need a kick up the Ar.. JUST MAKE THEM GO BACK, IDIOTS!!

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Im from near Liverpool and i wont get post for 2 weeks by the looks of this. Its just a way that the lazy population up here get some time off

ianOctober 16th 2007.

no not a hypocrite just i am just aware of other peoples issues, everyone just seems to want to get on with there own little worlds and not show some empathy for others, that is why society is in such a mess

fitssssyOctober 16th 2007.

I,m not saying they don,t work hard and i did agree with the strike action even though it has cost us money i have supportted them BUT they have taken this way to far now and should go back to work whilst they still can

AnonymousOctober 16th 2007.

Posties contribute to taxes and national insurance. Do any of you ebuyers?. Don't be too quick to judge!!!!!

John MooneyOctober 16th 2007.

"Anonymous says.." I am so annoyed at some people. The postmen are only trying to keep a good public service going. Do you think that they like striking for the fun off it and receiving no pay for it. They have families to support to you know."That i have no problem with it,s the doing it without abiding by the Unions and laws i have the problem with

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